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Post by kenkong on Nov 29, 2021 16:30:19 GMT 8
To the moon with your Lambo and all that stuff.
Recently bit the bullet and took a seat at the roulette table that is crypto.
TBH the more I learn about it the more I can see its utility, but still a long way off understanding it fully. The gen z at work etc totally embrace it, if you can't beat em join them I guess...
Currently holding bitcoin and cardano.
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Post by roxii on Nov 29, 2021 17:24:06 GMT 8
How do you “buy” crypto?
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Post by Ironnerd on Nov 29, 2021 19:40:32 GMT 8
The easy way is to sign up with an Australian crypto exchange or trading platform like coinspot.com.au. It is then like buying shares. You transfer money in and buy crypto. Each transaction will cost a fee, just like a share trade. Just like buying shares you specify the number of coins and a maximum price and place an order. If crypto is available at the price you nominated the order will be executed. Each different crypto will be in a separate wallet in your account. Like shares the online platform will show graphs with the "value" of the crypto. You can buy fractions (up to 6 decimal places) of a coin. Coinspot has an option to buy bundles. You pay a single fee to buy a bundle of different crypto. For example Top 3, Top 10, Green, etc. This gives you a cheap way to be exposed to multiple crypto. The Australian exchanges do not sell all the different types of crypto. I opened an account with gate.io. They have a very wide range of crypto. Opening an International account is a little more complicated than an Australian exchange. If you make a profit, taxation will be complicated also. Some of the crypto I could not buy on Coinspot I bought on gate.io. All of the platforms will charge a fee to turn "real" money into crypto. The fees vary widely. It is cheaper for me to buy Bitcoin on Coinspot, transfer it to gate.io and then use the Bitcoin to buy the crypto that I want. Crypto is the wild west. There are scams. There is a lot of boom or bust. I have some play money invested in crypto. Do not put all of your savings into crypto. It is like betting on horse racing. |
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Post by Ironnerd on Nov 29, 2021 19:43:00 GMT 8
I have Bitcoin, Etherium, Metahero and a bundle of different crypto.
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Post by catlady on Nov 30, 2021 14:02:06 GMT 8
I hope some of you bought omnicrom on the weekend. up 1000%....
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Post by Ironnerd on Nov 30, 2021 15:09:03 GMT 8
I hope some of you bought omnicrom on the weekend. up 1000%....  . I wish. You would not want to hold it long, at some point it will come crashing down. |
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Post by Ironnerd on Dec 8, 2021 11:26:17 GMT 8
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Post by Peter on Dec 8, 2021 12:44:27 GMT 8
I saw the creator of Bitcoin will now move some of the original keystone bitcoins to prove he created it.
Craig Wright.
I used to work with him. Bastard never put me on the Bitcoin route.
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Post by kenkong on Dec 8, 2021 16:10:58 GMT 8
Yeah read that, did make me a little nervous and reminded me I really need to move my coins into a private wallet. I'm currently with Independent Reserve who are 'supposed' to be legit... |
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Post by comfortablynumb on Dec 9, 2021 4:21:11 GMT 8
Do not put all of your savings into crypto. It is like betting on horse racing. I'm glad you said that, because that has been my impression too. I have a relative who bought into Bitcoin right at the start, owns about 10 bitcoins and paid an average of about $1,000 for them. He's always in financial trouble and stressing about what to do and how to fund retirement (he's busting to retire, but has BA super/savings). He's an anti-capitalist leftie who wants to be richer, but not by the traditional get rich slowly methods (which he calls an 'inflationary fiat'). His goal is to be smarter than everyone and get rich through Crypto, while hoping the traditional investments all collapse.  When they hit $80,000+, I advised him to sell as not even Warren Buffet makes a profit like that. There'd be capital gains tax to pay, but even so. But no, he reckons Bitcoin will be worth $0.5-1.0M in 2 years. |
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gregb
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Post by gregb on Dec 9, 2021 4:47:08 GMT 8
...There'd be capital gains tax to pay, but even so. ... You'd brag about paying that much CGT. |
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Post by kenkong on Dec 9, 2021 5:01:10 GMT 8
Do not put all of your savings into crypto. It is like betting on horse racing. I'm glad you said that, because that has been my impression too. I have a relative who bought into Bitcoin right at the start, owns about 10 bitcoins and paid an average of about $1,000 for them. He's always in financial trouble and stressing about what to do and how to fund retirement (he's busting to retire, but has BA super/savings). He's an anti-capitalist leftie who wants to be richer, but not by the traditional get rich slowly methods (which he calls an 'inflationary fiat'). His goal is to be smarter than everyone and get rich through Crypto, while hoping the traditional investments all collapse. When they hit $80,000+, I advised him to sell as not even Warren Buffet makes a profit like that. There'd be capital gains tax to pay, but even so. But no, he reckons Bitcoin will be worth $0.5-1.0M in 2 years. Its definitely interesting times, much like the beginning of the internet itself. I'd hazard to say bitcoin probably still has a huge potential for increase. For example Amazon have hired a crypto team and if they announced they would be accepting bitcoin it would double in the blink of an eye. But much like the start of the Internet there will be winners and looser and new titans take over. Bitcoin will at some point head down the same path as Yahoo, MySpace etc and be worth nothing. It's to slow and energy intensive. All it has is 'brand' recognition, there are far more capable and energy efficient coins out there just waiting to gain traction. Oh and also never ever ever give friends finance advice. If your mate sold at $80k and then it went to $160k who do you think would get the blame  |
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Post by DropBear on Dec 9, 2021 6:02:53 GMT 8
Serious question because I've always invested in Shares and Property and don't necessarily understand crypto currencies and how it works.
What are you actually investing in? The closest I can come to is that its like investing in Gold but without the physical asset.
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Post by IronJimbo on Dec 9, 2021 6:45:46 GMT 8
Do not put all of your savings into crypto. It is like betting on horse racing. I'm glad you said that, because that has been my impression too. I have a relative who bought into Bitcoin right at the start, owns about 10 bitcoins and paid an average of about $1,000 for them. He's always in financial trouble and stressing about what to do and how to fund retirement (he's busting to retire, but has BA super/savings). He's an anti-capitalist leftie who wants to be richer, but not by the traditional get rich slowly methods (which he calls an 'inflationary fiat'). His goal is to be smarter than everyone and get rich through Crypto, while hoping the traditional investments all collapse. An anti-capitalist lefty who thinks he's smarter than everyone else and has absolute faith in his theories? Now there's something you don't see every day... Jokes aside though, diversification is always a good (and proven) idea |
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Post by comfortablynumb on Dec 9, 2021 7:18:34 GMT 8
I'm glad you said that, because that has been my impression too. I have a relative who bought into Bitcoin right at the start, owns about 10 bitcoins and paid an average of about $1,000 for them. He's always in financial trouble and stressing about what to do and how to fund retirement (he's busting to retire, but has BA super/savings). He's an anti-capitalist leftie who wants to be richer, but not by the traditional get rich slowly methods (which he calls an 'inflationary fiat'). His goal is to be smarter than everyone and get rich through Crypto, while hoping the traditional investments all collapse. An anti-capitalist lefty who thinks he's smarter than everyone else and has absolute faith in his theories? Now there's something you don't see every day... Jokes aside though, diversification is always a good (and proven) idea The more disturbing thing is the dance of joy he would do if all the conventional financial systems collapsed and most people's finances went down the gurgler. The Mrs bought a little (a real little) Bitcoin.....at about $60K  . The thing I don't understand is if it becomes a mainstream currency, why will the value skyrocket? I could only see that happening if other currencies disappeared and there was a shortage of crypto supply? That would be a real 'inflationary fiat'. Would govts allow that to happen? |
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Post by IronJimbo on Dec 9, 2021 7:29:36 GMT 8
An anti-capitalist lefty who thinks he's smarter than everyone else and has absolute faith in his theories? Now there's something you don't see every day... Jokes aside though, diversification is always a good (and proven) idea The more disturbing thing is the dance of joy he would do if all the conventional financial systems collapsed and most people's finances went down the gurgler. The Mrs bought a little (a real little) Bitcoin.....at about $60K . The thing I don't understand is if it becomes a mainstream currency, why will the value skyrocket? I could only see that happening if other currencies disappeared and there was a shortage of crypto supply? That would be a real 'inflationary fiat'. Would govts allow that to happen? It's less likely here, at least for the moment, but despite already experiencing serious inflationary concerns the US government seems hell-bent on spending more money than has ever been created by God or man Venezuelans can tell you all about what rampant inflation can do to the value of a currency |
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Post by kenkong on Dec 9, 2021 9:57:40 GMT 8
The thing I don't understand is if it becomes a mainstream currency, why will the value skyrocket? I could only see that happening if other currencies disappeared and there was a shortage of crypto supply? That would be a real 'inflationary fiat'. Would govts allow that to happen? DropBear Avatar Dec 9, 2021 9:02:53 GMT 11 DropBear said: Serious question because I've always invested in Shares and Property and don't necessarily understand crypto currencies and how it works. What are you actually investing in? The closest I can come to is that its like investing in Gold but without the physical asset. All questions I have generally asked myself. The impression I have so far is with bitcoin for example: -it is protected-no one can take it from you. Any cash you have either in a bank or in your house can be confiscated by someone, the government. With crypto this is impossible without the wallet key. -cash value can be reduced/destroyed by the government (looking at you Venezuala...In 2016, Venezuela entered hyperinflation. The inflation rate reached 274% in 2016, 863% in 2017, 130,060% in 2018 and 9,586% in 2019. Since 2016, the overall inflation rate has increased to 53,798,500%.) There are a fixed amount of bitcoins, no more can ever be created, and with scarcity comes value. Much like a stamp, footy card, ming vase or even diamond they are only valuable because they are scarce..(well this is questionable for diamonds..looking at you De Beers..). As with Venezuela cash (fiat currency) can loose value in the blink of an eye. Take the U.S for example-in 2020 they printed or 'created' 20% of every dollar ever made. i.e they created around $9 TRILLION dollars!!! With $9 trillion dollars created out of thin air your U.S dollar has now become even less scarce, devaluing the cash sitting in your bank (as a yank). I think this is a main driver or attraction for people-your dollar can't be sunk by the actions of a government. -it cuts out the middle man. Basically you don't need a bank, i can send you a crypto coin directly. This does fall over though when you want/need to convert it to fiat currency.. -it can't be stopped. Sure governments like china can ban it but all it means is the servers move to another country. Wherever there is a country willing to make a buck there will be a server crunching this stuff...What I have wondered though is how you eventually convert it to cash-the government could ban the banks from accepting foreign payments etc...could get tricky... - Crypto basically can't be forged. The whole idea of the block chain is a massive ledger that keeps track of all transactions. This is partly why Bitcoin is such a massively inefficient and bad for the environment-it takes a massive amount of electricity and computing power to keep on top of all of these transactions. And this is one of the reason why I reckon Bitcoin is a deadman walking-its whole approach is to inefficient. It uses a 'proof of work' approach to keep track of everything, using huge amounts of energy to run the computers. As it becomes more mainstream this energy demand is going to only get worse. New alternatives like Cardano and Ethereum which use 'Proof of Stake' which use far less power and can ramp up their processing capabilities as it becomes more popular. Basically proof of stake don't require miners to waste resources on duplicative processes (competing to solve the same puzzle). The proof of stake approach requires that the node (group of computers) only has to validate the transactions within its block, not the entire history of every transaction in the entire block chain. This is my very rough idea though and Im sure there are much more smarter and informed people here that correct anything Ive said that is wrong, or hopefully add to it. it is bloody confusing no doubt about it... |
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Post by comfortablynumb on Dec 9, 2021 10:12:20 GMT 8
The thing I don't understand is if it becomes a mainstream currency, why will the value skyrocket? I could only see that happening if other currencies disappeared and there was a shortage of crypto supply? That would be a real 'inflationary fiat'. Would govts allow that to happen? DropBear Avatar Dec 9, 2021 9:02:53 GMT 11 DropBear said: Serious question because I've always invested in Shares and Property and don't necessarily understand crypto currencies and how it works. What are you actually investing in? The closest I can come to is that its like investing in Gold but without the physical asset. All questions I have generally asked myself. The impression I have so far is with bitcoin for example: -it is protected-no one can take it from you. Any cash you have either in a bank or in your house can be confiscated by someone, the government. With crypto this is impossible without the wallet key. -its value can be reduced by the government. There are a fixed amount of bitcoins, no more can ever be created, and with scarcity comes value. Much like a stamp, footy card, ming vase or even diamond they are only valuable because they are scarce..(well this is questionable for diamonds..looking at you De Beers..). However your cash (fiat currency) can loose value in the blink of an eye. Take the U.S for example-in 2020 they printed or 'created' 20% of every dollar ever made. i.e they created around $9 TRILLION dollars!!! With $9 trillion dollars crated out of thin air your U.S dollar has now become even less scarce, leading to high inflation, a devaluing of the cash sitting in your bank (as a yank). I think this is a main driver or attraction for people-your dollar can't be sunk by the actions of a government. -it cuts out the middle man. Basically you don't need a bank, i can send you a crypto directly. This does fall over though when you want/need to convert it to fiat currency.. -it can't be stopped. Sure governments like china can ban it but all it means is the servers move to another country. Wherever there is a country willing to make a buck there will be a server crunching this stuff...What I have wondered though is how you eventually convert it to cash-the government could ban the banks from accepting foreign payments etc...could get tricky... - Crypto basically can't be forged. The whole idea of the block chain is a massive ledger that keeps track of all transactions. This is partly why Bitcoin is such a massively inefficient and bad for the environment-it takes a massive amount of electricity and computing power to keep on top of all of these transactions. And this is one of the reason why I reckon Bitcoin is a deadman walking-its whole approach is to inefficient. It uses a 'proof of work' approach to keep track of everything, using huge amounts of energy to run the computers. As it becomes more mainstream this energy demand is going to only get worse. New alternatives like Cardano and Ethereum which use 'Proof of Stake' which use far less power and can ramp up their processing capabilities as it becomes more popular. Basically proof of stake don't require miners to waste resources on duplicative processes (competing to solve the same puzzle). The proof of stake approach requires that the node (group of computers) only has to validate the transactions within its block, not the entire history of every transaction in the entire block chain. Thi is my very rough idea though and Im sure there are much more smarter and informed people here that get set anything Ive said tat is wrong straight or hopefully add to it. it is bloody confusing no doubt about it... That is all very interesting. A few things you have said strike me: 1. It seems to be a currency for conspiracy theorists - which is exactly what my relative is. 2. No more can ever be created? I thought that was what the Bitcoin miners did - created more Bitcoin? If no more can be created, how the Hell is it ever going to become a (the?) mainstream currency? It's value should just go up and up meaning most people won't be able to access it? 3. Yes, the irony of its environmental unfriendliness and my relative Green/anti-capitalist ideology has not escaped me. |
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Post by Peter on Dec 9, 2021 10:29:48 GMT 8
Bitcoin is limited to 21 million coins.
My question is, once that number is hit, whats the point of mining? What would you get out of it?
Currently at 17 million coins.
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Post by kenkong on Dec 9, 2021 10:54:41 GMT 8
That is all very interesting. A few things you have said strike me: 1. It seems to be a currency for conspiracy theorists - which is exactly what my relative is. 2. No more can ever be created? I thought that was what the Bitcoin miners did - created more Bitcoin? If no more can be created, how the Hell is it ever going to become a (the?) mainstream currency? It's value should just go up and up meaning most people won't be able to access it? 3. Yes, the irony of its environmental unfriendliness and my relative Green/anti-capitalist ideology has not escaped me. The government can and have destroyed the value of peoples savings through inflation, this is a very real risk. As for protection against people taking your money..well I guess if you aren't a crook you don have to many worries. But yeah sure, it would be very attractive for the conspiracy theory types. Bitcoin has a max amount of 21 million coins-no more can ever be created. At the moment the 'miners' solving the mathematical problems get the newly created coins as a reward for their effort. which raises another issue-one day when all the 21 million coins have been mined there will have to be some other incentive for the miners to continue to process all the transactions which will likely be fees. Apparently a single bitcoin transaction consumes 1719 kilowatt hours of electricity- "Blocks are created by transforming the data associated with a group of transactions. That transformational process, known as hashing, isn’t inherently computationally intensive. But to get a hash that starts with the required number of zeros—it changes (typically increasing) after every 2,016 blocks or roughly every two weeks—a miner has to tweak the data and then hash it, check whether the result has the proper number of zeros, and, if not, start over again. That process of hashing and rehashing usually goes on thousands of times and consumes lots of energy. The first miner on the network to find a valid hash uses it to create a block, adds it to the chain, and is then rewarded for this community service with newly minted bitcoins. With many parties competing to win each block, no one party can gain control over the currency and its ledger. Bitcoin’s mining-based ledger-writing process is aptly known as “proof of work.” In June, the world’s bitcoin miners were generating roughly 5 quintillion 256-bit cryptographic hashes every second, according to the all-things-Bitcoin website Blockchain.info. That’s a 5 with 18 zeros after it, every second. No entity tracks how much power it takes to sustain that level of computation. But estimates by independent researchers suggest it’s around 500 megawatts—enough to supply roughly 325,000 homes [PDF] —with the activity concentrated in China and a few other countries with cheap energy and, in some cases, loose regulations on emissions." And is the ONLY reason Im holding some bitcoin-Im just waiting for that scumbag Elon Musk to come out and say he is powering a large chunk of the bitcoin network of energy efficient Tesla batteries and then the price will go absolutely boonta! Tesla still hold a couple of billion $ worth of bitcoin I think, he isn't going to let that just go to waste... |
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Post by Ironnerd on Dec 9, 2021 12:41:02 GMT 8
Do not put all of your savings into crypto. It is like betting on horse racing. I'm glad you said that, because that has been my impression too. I have a relative who bought into Bitcoin right at the start, owns about 10 bitcoins and paid an average of about $1,000 for them. He's always in financial trouble and stressing about what to do and how to fund retirement (he's busting to retire, but has BA super/savings). He's an anti-capitalist leftie who wants to be richer, but not by the traditional get rich slowly methods (which he calls an 'inflationary fiat'). His goal is to be smarter than everyone and get rich through Crypto, while hoping the traditional investments all collapse. When they hit $80,000+, I advised him to sell as not even Warren Buffet makes a profit like that. There'd be capital gains tax to pay, but even so. But no, he reckons Bitcoin will be worth $0.5-1.0M in 2 years. It probably is not as bad as betting on the horses. It is more like investing in shares in an emerging market. There is high risk and high reward. You need to decide your own risk profile and decide if crypto is right for you. |
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Post by kenkong on Dec 9, 2021 16:15:52 GMT 8
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Post by comfortablynumb on Dec 10, 2021 4:59:44 GMT 8
I still don't get it (maybe I'm a bit dim?).
But if only 21M Bitcoin will ever be created, and it will become scarce, and its value skyrockets, how will it ever become a 'mainstream currency'? How will the average punter ever be able to afford to buy even a fraction of a Bitcoin and use it to purchase say their groceries, or petrol?
It still looks like a bit of a Ponzi scheme to me. Those who got in early and got it cheap can make a motza. But is the underlying asset actually 'real' if most people can't afford to buy it and use it? As said above, it is like rare diamonds, which are extremely valuable, but only the very wealthy can dabble in. Or some other speculative asset. People will buy & sell hoping to make a killing, but it is not 'mainstream currency' - just like you don't buy your groceries with diamonds? Maybe it will just become a currency for some specific large assets, like Tesla cars?
Mind you, it was my conspiracy theory relative who was saying it will become mainstream currency and other traditional currencies will disappear, but maybe that was never the intention of the crypto creators?
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Post by kenkong on Dec 10, 2021 5:13:38 GMT 8
I still don't get it (maybe I'm a bit dim?). But if only 21M Bitcoin will ever be created, and it will become scarce, and its value skyrockets, how will it ever become a 'mainstream currency'? How will the average punter ever be able to afford to buy even a fraction of a Bitcoin and use it to purchase say their groceries, or petrol? It still looks like a bit of a Ponzi scheme to me. Those who got in early and got it cheap can make a motza. But is the underlying asset actually 'real' if most people can't afford to buy it and use it? As said above, it is like rare diamonds, which are extremely valuable, but only the very wealthy can dabble in. Or some other speculative asset. People will buy & sell hoping to make a killing, but it is not 'mainstream currency' - just like you don't buy your groceries with diamonds? Maybe it will just become a currency for some specific large assets, like Tesla cars? Mind you, it was my conspiracy theory relative who was saying it will become mainstream currency and other traditional currencies will disappear, but maybe that was never the intention of the crypto creators? Lol no you are not dim at all, I don't think it makes much sense to a lot of people, myself included. The benefit of it being scarce is its supposed to support its value. Think about it this way-$20k today cant even but you a new car but not all that long ago it could buy you a house. The value of the dollar has reduced, its lost value through inflation due to increased supply. With bitcoin you don't have to buy or use a entire $66k coin, you can buy fractions of it. You can buy $100 worth of bitcoin for example. I can't see how it would ever replace fiat currency. The problem at the moment anyway its way way to unstable, just today its dropped about 7% on due Ever grande defaulting, so the whole argument about protecting the value of your money/asset is laughable with this type of volatility |
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Post by kenkong on Dec 13, 2021 14:29:19 GMT 8
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Post by plazbot on Dec 23, 2021 17:24:39 GMT 8
An anti-capitalist lefty who thinks he's smarter than everyone else and has absolute faith in his theories? Now there's something you don't see every day... Jokes aside though, diversification is always a good (and proven) idea The more disturbing thing is the dance of joy he would do if all the conventional financial systems collapsed and most people's finances went down the gurgler. The Mrs bought a little (a real little) Bitcoin.....at about $60K . The thing I don't understand is if it becomes a mainstream currency, why will the value skyrocket? I could only see that happening if other currencies disappeared and there was a shortage of crypto supply? That would be a real 'inflationary fiat'. Would govts allow that to happen? But here's the thing, if it ever got to the point where the banking system collapsed, Bitcoin would be worthless too. The only things of value would he guns, bullets and water. |
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Post by kenkong on Dec 24, 2021 9:53:32 GMT 8
FFS... Been watching ADA go down for the last few weeks, finally bite the bullet and decide to sell with the intention of buying back in cheaper and almost as soon as the trade is completed ADA breaks out and is up about 15% on my sell price... FFS....
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Post by DropBear on May 13, 2022 5:52:32 GMT 8
Do not put all of your savings into crypto. It is like betting on horse racing. Having spent some time in the Horse racing gambling industry and looking at what I've seen over the past few days with crypto, I reckon I can say that betting on horse racing is a far safer option. |
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Post by roxii on May 13, 2022 8:41:42 GMT 8
Do not put all of your savings into crypto. It is like betting on horse racing. Having spent some time in the Horse racing gambling industry and looking at what I've seen over the past few days with crypto, I reckon I can say that betting on horse racing is a far safer option. I know nothing about Crypto, but superficially it seems that as soon as it moved from its basic premise of being an alternative currency to becoming a speculative investment it became just another high risk investment with all the benefits and pitfalls that come with that. |
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Post by Peter on May 14, 2022 7:16:26 GMT 8
Having spent some time in the Horse racing gambling industry and looking at what I've seen over the past few days with crypto, I reckon I can say that betting on horse racing is a far safer option. I know nothing about Crypto, but superficially it seems that as soon as it moved from its basic premise of being an alternative currency to becoming a speculative investment it became just another high risk investment with all the benefits and pitfalls that come with that. I wish I got into it 10 years ago when all my work mates were mining it. but then again, I would have sold out when it was a few hundred dollars. guessing they all did that given they still work with me. |
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. I wish. You would not want to hold it long, at some point it will come crashing down. 
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