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Post by comfortablynumb on Feb 1, 2023 4:12:56 GMT 8
Reconciliation - define it? And how will it help with disadvantage? A Treaty - define it? And how will it help with disadvantage? A Voice - define it? And how will it help with disadvantage? Who said anything about helping the disadvantaged? Even if thats what they're hinting, its not the "End Game" as far as they're concerned. As far as I can see the only outcome of this whole process is a select group of people (not necessarily indigenous) gaining some serious power and influence (and dare I suggest it...wealth) that they wouldn't have got through any other method. Consider this referendum an election to parliament of a group of people with no fixed term, and no opportunity of voting them out. Yup, quite likely. ABC Radio y'day were suggesting the Voice etc were all about overcoming aboriginal disadvantage, so they seem to believe that is a goal. The only thing I've ever seen which has some chance of dragging some aboriginal kids out of disadvantage is programs like BackTrack. backtrack.org.au/
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Post by IronJimbo on Feb 1, 2023 11:45:32 GMT 8
The things that will drag aboriginal kids out of disadvantage are schooling and parents making better decisions
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Post by DropBear on Feb 1, 2023 11:52:51 GMT 8
ABC Radio y'day were suggesting the Voice etc were all about overcoming aboriginal disadvantage, so they seem to believe that is a goal. Going to be tough (if not impossible) job. Too much multigenerational dependence on government welfare and/or deeply ingrained attitudes of hatred. Sad really because for many its by their own choices. Although there will be plenty of bleeding heart types who would argue otherwise.
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Ayto
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Post by Ayto on Feb 1, 2023 12:37:24 GMT 8
Interestingly, the 26 January was when The Nationality and Citizenship Act 1948 came into effect, creating Australian citizenship for the first time. Previously, the government-approved residents of Australia had only been "British nationals"; now they had both Australian and British nationality. Captain Cook and later the First Fleet were listed as arriving in January - but not on the 26th. Now, why would you go and bring something like the truth into a topic such as this!! I don't know what the answer is, but as someone who worked in arguably Australia's largest placed based non profit organisation dealing with disadvantaged young people, predominately whom were of indigenous or indigenous/mixed heritage, I will not see any kind of resolution or peace around this in my lifetime. There is too much money involved, that in my view, is spread amongst the indigenous community completely unfairly. Unfortunately, the majority of funds is spent on administrative and executive salaries and all the relevant perks that go along with such, benefiting a select group of individuals (predominately from the same families) whilst many, many others miss out and next to nothing is spent on real initiatives and programs that could assist. Having said that, and this will be somewhat controversial, stop the flow of money completely and stop trying to fix something that money won't and can't fix. The caveat on this is that people who genuinely need help should get it, but this should have nothing to do with race, gender, age etc etc. That's just the right thing to do. I firmly believe the problem is worse, and will continue to be a problem whilst there is so much money at stake. Anyways, like I said, I won't see a resolution to this in my lifetime but I am sick of all the crap that gets trotted out constantly, especially this time of year. Or maybe I'm just a grumpy old sh!t. I dunno.
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Post by comfortablynumb on Feb 1, 2023 15:11:26 GMT 8
I agree with all the last 3 comments.
Ayto, my wife also worked in one of those organisations and it was exactly as you say - a few families got the $'s and misused them, the minions got nothing.
We have an aboriginal health centre here which cost $Ms and has never operated! It is slowly rotting away surrounded by weeds.
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Post by IronJimbo on Feb 1, 2023 18:51:06 GMT 8
"Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem" - Ronald Reagan
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Post by comfortablynumb on Feb 6, 2023 12:23:55 GMT 8
Had a very interesting discussion about the aboriginal issue with a local police prosecutor on the weekend. He sees it all out here. Bottom line from his perspective is: Less than 1% of indigenous causing all their crime problems. While a higher % are 'mischievous', most just want a quiet life either working or sitting on welfare. He can't see any white fella policy improving their situation. They need to do it themselves, with guidance from their elders. Problem is the elders now are a generation of alcohol & drug affected, often instilling anti-white sentiment in the younger generations, hence not much hope of them leading their people out of the mire. The responsible elders of the past are nearly gone.
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Post by prince on Feb 6, 2023 13:08:05 GMT 8
some polls are saying that the "yes' vote will win. I don't ge it as no one even knows what the hell a yes vote means yet. Our Woke PM hasn't said anything about it...
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Post by DropBear on Feb 7, 2023 13:32:40 GMT 8
some polls are saying that the "yes' vote will win. I don't ge it as no one even knows what the hell a yes vote means yet. Our Woke PM hasn't said anything about it... Would these be the same polls that couldn't predict an election result for about 5 years.
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Post by Peter on Feb 8, 2023 10:40:33 GMT 8
some polls are saying that the "yes' vote will win. I don't ge it as no one even knows what the hell a yes vote means yet. Our Woke PM hasn't said anything about it... History shows that Aussies dont vote yes to anything unless they know everything about it. The republic was a great example. A lot of people wanted it, but the details were unknown so people didnt vote yes. This will be the same. Unless there is a clear message with 4-5 facts that sum it all up, there is no way people are voting yes. This has zero chance to get over 50%
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Post by DropBear on Feb 22, 2023 16:32:08 GMT 8
I see AP has started a "Path To Treaty" From ABC NewsI'd be surprised if its little more than a "negotiation" where the indigenous mob say "you stole it. We want it back...plus compensation plus existing Government handouts...plus...plus...plus...", and the Qld govt bending over backwards granting everything and offering more. With the end result costing the taxpayers of this state billions (if not trillions over time), and 97% of the population getting completely screwed. or in other words, I suspect Elon Musk will have a new challenger for worst deal made this century.
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Post by Peter on Mar 24, 2023 12:20:47 GMT 8
50% vote to get this up not the 70% I thought. this should make it interesting. Attachments:
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Post by prince on Mar 24, 2023 12:58:47 GMT 8
Albo will bawl his eyes out if it doesn't get up
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Post by DropBear on Mar 24, 2023 13:52:46 GMT 8
50% vote to get this up not the 70% I thought. this should make it interesting. Its missing the one where we pay a yearly "rent" to local indigenous mob for living on the land. Initially a voluntary payment but one suspects it it gets up they'll try to extend it and make it compulsory by forcing local councils to add it to the land rates we already pay.
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bosco
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Post by bosco on Mar 24, 2023 14:15:25 GMT 8
My influences are more rural than city but not a lot of support (understatement) for it in my circles. I need to do my own research on it a little more.
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Post by DropBear on Mar 24, 2023 14:33:22 GMT 8
Albo will bawl his eyes out if it doesn't get up I'd like to see that. But Albo better be careful. Government procured boxes of tissues cost about $3000 a box. I was talking to a bloke the other week who has spent a lot of time living and working in NW Western Australia and who is very sympathetic to the plight of the indigenous populations up there but is definately on the NO side of the vote. Some of the stories he told me about what goes on in some (but certainly not all) of those indigenous communities would astound you. And despite what the popular narrative is saying, in many cases its the indigenous mobs that are causing their own issues. Towns are not run according to Australian Law but rather run according to their own tribal law and where drunkenness, child abuse (physical and sexual) and rape are common and its the women and children who are copping the brunt of it. He went on to talk about a specific place that I was familiar with by reputation where the public narrative is that the "Government came in and just shut the place down" but according to the people who were on the ground at the time it was one of those places being run by "tribal justice" and it was the women who asked the government to step in. The tribal justice disciplinary actions he described was so abusive and so heinous that it would get any white man thrown in jail for the rest of their life. Now my mate isn't prone to exaggeration, embellishment or lies so I don't doubt what he's saying is anything but the truth. He said that putting influence and power and money into hands of people like that will only be a bad thing for the majority.
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bosco
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Post by bosco on Mar 25, 2023 14:28:46 GMT 8
NSW elections today. One Nation at Hornsby had 20-30 Asians holding placards etc - go figure.
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Post by Peter on Mar 25, 2023 19:38:36 GMT 8
NSW elections today. One Nation at Hornsby had 20-30 Asians holding placards etc - go figure. Maybe like like one nations honesty.
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Post by IronJimbo on May 17, 2023 12:55:25 GMT 8
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Post by prince on May 18, 2023 12:37:49 GMT 8
I am not surprised it is narrowing. I saw the media advert last night with an indigenous person stating it will further divide us so vote NO. She may well be right. I think many people get unfairly targeted as being racist if they wish to vote no.
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Post by DropBear on May 19, 2023 13:02:41 GMT 8
'Yes' vote has now narrowed to 53-47 Maybe that warm fuzzy feelings people had back in January to do something to amend the hurts of our poor oppressed "black" brethren has been replaced by a genuine dose of reality as more and more details are released and people are realising the potential implications of what saying "yes" might mean. or alternatively the poll could just be a healthy dose of sheep sh!t generated by ChatGP.
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Post by IronJimbo on May 23, 2023 6:13:05 GMT 8
'Yes' vote has now narrowed to 53-47 Maybe that warm fuzzy feelings people had back in January to do something to amend the hurts of our poor oppressed "black" brethren has been replaced by a genuine dose of reality as more and more details are released and people are realising the potential implications of what saying "yes" might mean. Or maybe people are suspicious about how little detail has been released
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Post by DropBear on May 23, 2023 15:02:47 GMT 8
Maybe that warm fuzzy feelings people had back in January to do something to amend the hurts of our poor oppressed "black" brethren has been replaced by a genuine dose of reality as more and more details are released and people are realising the potential implications of what saying "yes" might mean. Or maybe people are suspicious about how little detail has been released I reckon the Stan Grant affair will have an impact too.
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Post by Peter on Aug 30, 2023 13:00:30 GMT 8
Legit question because I can’t find the answer.
50% to get the yes vote up. is this 50% of people who vote on the day? So 10 million people vote. 5,000,001 need to vote yes for a win?
or 50% of people eligible to vote?
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Post by flanman on Aug 30, 2023 16:18:25 GMT 8
The Australian Constitution can only be altered by referendum. In a referendum, all Australians of voting age vote yes or no for the proposed changes. To succeed, a majority of voters nationwide and a majority of States (four out of six) must approve the changes.
FM
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Post by Peter on Aug 30, 2023 17:14:52 GMT 8
To succeed, a majority of voters nationwide
Is this of the people that vote on the day?
Or a majority of the people registered to vote?
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Post by DropBear on Aug 31, 2023 6:09:29 GMT 8
Legit question because I can’t find the answer. 50% to get the yes vote up. is this 50% of people who vote on the day? So 10 million people vote. 5,000,001 need to vote yes for a win? or 50% of people eligible to vote? 50% of formal votes cast. Formal vote is a YES in the box if you approve the proposed alteration, OR NO in the box if you do not approve the proposed alteration. Anything else (including ticks, crosses and "This Sux") will make the vote invalid. AEC FAQ
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Post by kenkong on Aug 31, 2023 6:45:10 GMT 8
To succeed, a majority of voters nationwide Is this of the people that vote on the day? Or a majority of the people registered to vote? A majority of the people AND a majority of the states. I'm still waiting for them to explain to me how this 'voice' will allow them to fix the things that they are currently being prevented from doing? They are using rates of incarceration, life expectancy, death during pregnancy etc as things that will be fixed by the voice. Why and how, and why in the fark can't they act on those things now? I, along with the majority of the population can see this is all a crock of sh!t and the results will show this.
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Post by DropBear on Sept 1, 2023 10:45:31 GMT 8
I'm still waiting for them to explain to me how this 'voice' will allow them to fix the things that they are currently being prevented from doing? They are using rates of incarceration, life expectancy, death during pregnancy etc as things that will be fixed by the voice. Why and how, and why in the fark can't they act on those things now? I, along with the majority of the population can see this is all a crock of sh!t and the results will show this. I don't think they will. The impression I've been left with is that we're voting on changing the constitution and if (and only if) its approved, then they'll work the nuts and bolts of how it works, who's involved, how it gets funded and what its going to achieve etc etc etc. One would suspect that if such draft legislation existed, Albo would be trotting it out at some elaborately staged media conference ad waving it around like a stranded sailor on a island waves to get the attention of a passing ship. But based on recent political history, any resemblance between what we've told it'll be and what it will ends up being could be purely coincidental.
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Post by Peter on Sept 1, 2023 14:14:46 GMT 8
Legit question because I can’t find the answer. 50% to get the yes vote up. is this 50% of people who vote on the day? So 10 million people vote. 5,000,001 need to vote yes for a win? or 50% of people eligible to vote? 50% of formal votes cast. Formal vote is a YES in the box if you approve the proposed alteration, OR NO in the box if you do not approve the proposed alteration. Anything else (including ticks, crosses and "This Sux") will make the vote invalid. AEC FAQThank you.
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