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Post by DropBear on Jul 31, 2022 16:31:29 GMT 8
Can somebody explain to me why we need to have the "Voice to the Parliament" enshrined in the constitution?
And in the meantime, I'll make a couple of predictions.
1. If it passes, the power it provides will be abused
2. If it doesn't pass, we'll all be called racists.
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Post by BogFrog on Jul 31, 2022 21:26:49 GMT 8
What power will it provide?
What am I voting on?
Is it just advisory?
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gregb
Full Member
Posts: 102
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Post by gregb on Aug 1, 2022 5:48:08 GMT 8
How much will it cost?
Will I be getting value for my tax dollar?
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Post by DropBear on Aug 1, 2022 6:39:33 GMT 8
How much will it cost? Will I be getting value for my tax dollar? History suggests: 1. Lots 2. No |
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Post by prince on Aug 1, 2022 7:42:27 GMT 8
Waste of time and money. This new ‘PC’ government needs to focus on the inflation crisis in my opinion.
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Post by DropBear on Aug 1, 2022 8:09:30 GMT 8
Waste of time and money. This new ‘PC’ government needs to focus on the inflation crisis in my opinion. Plenty of things to focus on that isn't an "advisory group" representing 3% of the population. To be fair, I don't have an issue with the concept of an Advisory Group itself. I do have an issue with it "enshrined in the constitution" because I have absolutely no doubt that it will be abused over time. (like the Gun ownership situation has been abused in the US) |
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Post by IronJimbo on Aug 1, 2022 15:32:42 GMT 8
Can somebody explain to me why we need to have the "Voice to the Parliament" enshrined in the constitution? And in the meantime, I'll make a couple of predictions. 1. If it passes, the power it provides will be abused 2. If it doesn't pass, we'll all be called racists. Indigenous Australians already have a voice to the parliament. They're called 'MPs' |
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Post by IronJimbo on Aug 1, 2022 15:32:58 GMT 8
Waste of time and money. This new ‘PC’ government needs to focus on the inflation crisis in my opinion. Inflation is too hard, as Chalmers conceded last week |
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Post by Peter on Aug 1, 2022 16:15:54 GMT 8
It will never be a vote. Pointless
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Post by comfortablynumb on Aug 4, 2022 5:03:10 GMT 8
I thought they also wanted a 'Treaty' - whatever that is - seems like something symbolic which will do nothing to 'close the gap'.
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Post by DropBear on Aug 28, 2022 14:06:05 GMT 8
On a vaguely related topic.
I see that a mob in Northern Sydney who were granted land under the NSW Native title act are now proposing to develop and sell 71ha of that (Crown) land as 450 house lots.
Hard to see the basis of any claims of "spiritual, social, cultural and economic importance to Aborigines" (direct quote from the NSW Land Rights Act) on this particular patch of land.
All I know is that,
1. There no way this side of hell freezing over that I'd be able to propose a 450 lot housing development on Crown land and have it approved and
2. If this is approved then it'll set a precedence for it happening again in the future.
Be interesting to see down the track what happens when all the land is sold and the money is all gone.
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Post by flanman on Aug 28, 2022 18:01:18 GMT 8
Whilst not wanting to get into a debate, I thought the following facts are interesting:-
1. The number of stolen generation that were displaced - approx 34,000, including approx 27,000 aged 50 and over people (does not include their families, friends etc)
2. The estimated number of full blooded aboriginal in Australia - approx 5,000. The rest are mixed raced.
3. The number of babies forcibly taken from unwed mothers in Australia during the 1950s - 1970s - approx 225,000 from approx 150,000 mothers (almost all of non-aboriginal background).
Re point 2. That means that 99% are from 2 or more nationalities. Do you then pick a nationality to relate to the most ?
Re point 3. I was not aware of the size of this issue. A bit of a stolen generation there too.
FM
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Post by flanman on Sept 11, 2022 4:13:55 GMT 8
Just found out that there is an expected referendum on this topic next year.
FM
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Post by DropBear on Sept 11, 2022 7:12:54 GMT 8
Just found out that there is an expected referendum on this topic next year. FM Yes. A referendum is required to change the constitution. So we (i.e. the taxpayers of Australia) will spend a sh!tload of money to vote on something that isn't a necessity to achieve something that already exists. Still havn't heard from any creditable source why an "Indigenous Voice to Parliament" needs to be enshrined in the constitution. |
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Post by Peter on Sept 11, 2022 18:02:34 GMT 8
When it fails the media will have a field day saying we are racist.
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Post by DropBear on Sept 12, 2022 5:15:17 GMT 8
When it fails the media will have a field day saying we are racist. You're going to have to stop agreeing with me. Its destroying your reputation.  |
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Post by prince on Sept 14, 2022 4:42:27 GMT 8
Whilst not wanting to get into a debate, I thought the following facts are interesting:- 1. The number of stolen generation that were displaced - approx 34,000, including approx 27,000 aged 50 and over people (does not include their families, friends etc) 2. The estimated number of full blooded aboriginal in Australia - approx 5,000. The rest are mixed raced. 3. The number of babies forcibly taken from unwed mothers in Australia during the 1950s - 1970s - approx 225,000 from approx 150,000 mothers (almost all of non-aboriginal background). Re point 2. That means that 99% are from 2 or more nationalities. Do you then pick a nationality to relate to the most ? Re point 3. I was not aware of the size of this issue. A bit of a stolen generation there too. FM . It will never happain again and we have acknowledged our disgraceful ancestors. We even said we were sorry. Do we need more ? |
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Post by DropBear on Sept 14, 2022 5:51:43 GMT 8
. It will never happain again and we have acknowledged our disgraceful ancestors. We even said we were sorry. Do we need more ? I'm sure granting control millions of acres of land, a non-repayable credit card with no limit and the Presidency of the country will heal the hurt. |
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Post by flanman on Sept 14, 2022 19:15:03 GMT 8
Are we talking about the 225,000 babies forcibly taken from their mothers during the 50s/60s/70s? To me, that's quite a big number.
FM
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Post by DropBear on Jan 16, 2023 11:24:20 GMT 8
. It will never happain again and we have acknowledged our disgraceful ancestors. We even said we were sorry. Do we need more ? I'm sure granting control millions of acres of land, a non-repayable credit card with no limit and the Presidency of the country will heal the hurt. I see another commercially viable tourist concern that was built up from absolutely nothing on land that nobody wanted has now been closed...according to rumor due to a Native title claim and overbearing demands from the TOs on the property. So yet another huge part of the country has been closed to non indigenous Australians. Thats now pretty much everything in Northern Australia from the Kimberley to the Reef. This came from facebook and while not mine, I think is a good summary of whats happening right across the country. For those that don't know, Mr Mansfield is the Federal Aboriginal Land Commissioner who decreed that the land grab claim should be allowed. |
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Post by flanman on Jan 27, 2023 17:12:40 GMT 8
If we changed Australia Day from 26 January, what day would be picked? I cannot find any recommendations online, only "don't have 26 January".
Any ideas and why? (and please, this is a serious question).
Ta
FM
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Post by roxii on Jan 27, 2023 18:33:08 GMT 8
If we changed Australia Day from 26 January, what day would be picked? I cannot find any recommendations online, only "don't have 26 January". Any ideas and why? (and please, this is a serious question). Ta FM First Monday in Feb, that way it is always a long weekend, it means we can spin the summer holiday vibe on a bit longer, as we know no one gets serious about work till after the Oz day weekend. That day will have no strings attached so we can name it whatever we like and we can all “get on the beers” Personally I’d prefer we become a republic and use that as an excuse to have a new all inclusive date. |
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Post by flanman on Jan 28, 2023 6:24:23 GMT 8
Interestingly, the 26 January was when The Nationality and Citizenship Act 1948 came into effect, creating Australian citizenship for the first time. Previously, the government-approved residents of Australia had only been "British nationals"; now they had both Australian and British nationality. Captain Cook and later the First Fleet were listed as arriving in January - but not on the 26th.
I have looked at a few dates and if, that is - if the date was to change, I would pick 9 May. This day marks the date of the first meeting of the Commonwealth parliament (1901), on which Australia became a self-governing and independent commonwealth.
Maybe if we do become a republic, we can do that on the 9th of May. That would mean that's when we became a self-governing and independent commonwealth country THEN a republic.
But again, that's only me.
FM
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Post by roxii on Jan 28, 2023 7:14:49 GMT 8
I do find great irony in a lot of vocal opponents of changing the date still thinking Jan 26 has anything to do with Captain Cook when he arrived in April.
If you are gunna get uppity about a date at least find out what it is actually about.
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Post by Peter on Jan 28, 2023 15:42:35 GMT 8
I do find great irony in a lot of vocal opponents of changing the date still thinking Jan 26 has anything to do with Captain Cook when he arrived in April. If you are gunna get uppity about a date at least find out what it is actually about. Exactly. but let all of the aboriginal elected officials sit in a room until they pick a date and then we just go with that. but agree. Pick a first Monday in such a such month so its not A date. do the yanks have the same issues with the 4 path of July? |
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Post by sammyb on Jan 28, 2023 16:16:07 GMT 8
If there's a referendum, I hope it's not in winter.
Because delivery of all the information and voting tid bits will be a prick. For such an important thing, has to be mailed out in clear weather.
My 2 postal cents 😂👍
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Post by DropBear on Jan 29, 2023 8:18:35 GMT 8
If we changed Australia Day from 26 January, what day would be picked? I cannot find any recommendations online, only "don't have 26 January". Any ideas and why? (and please, this is a serious question). Ta FM To be fair. Does it really matter? Regardless of the day that gets picked, the woke mob will still complain that it celebrates the "invasion" and "dispossession" of the indigenous mob who were here first. |
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Post by IronJimbo on Jan 31, 2023 8:25:12 GMT 8
If we changed Australia Day from 26 January, what day would be picked? I cannot find any recommendations online, only "don't have 26 January". Any ideas and why? (and please, this is a serious question). Ta FM To be fair. Does it really matter? Regardless of the day that gets picked, the woke mob will still complain that it celebrates the "invasion" and "dispossession" of the indigenous mob who were here first. Correct Which is why so many people are wary of most discussions about 'reconciliation.' The word implies an end-point, which does not exist |
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Post by comfortablynumb on Jan 31, 2023 13:01:19 GMT 8
Correct Which is why so many people are wary of most discussions about 'reconciliation.' The word implies an end-point, which does not exist 100%, at least not for another 3-4 generations until something like real integration occurs through improved education and hence financial/social/health outcomes. Some have achieved this superbly. Too many have not. And is 'integration' a nasty colonialist racist term? Why should they have to 'integrate'? The cold hard truth is if they don't come to terms with how contemporary Australia operates, there will be no end-point to the welfare dependency cycle. And then the Wokies will say "But they can't lose their culture". Do they need to, to operate in a modern economy? I don't think so. Reconciliation - define it? And how will it help with disadvantage? A Treaty - define it? And how will it help with disadvantage? A Voice - define it? And how will it help with disadvantage? To me, they are all symbolic/emotional/virtue signalling items. They might help some indigenous people feel better, but I doubt it will help many move forward from where they are now, at least not within a generation or two. |
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Post by DropBear on Jan 31, 2023 15:53:10 GMT 8
Reconciliation - define it? And how will it help with disadvantage? A Treaty - define it? And how will it help with disadvantage? A Voice - define it? And how will it help with disadvantage? Who said anything about helping the disadvantaged? Even if thats what they're hinting, its not the "End Game" as far as they're concerned. As far as I can see the only outcome of this whole process is a select group of people (not necessarily indigenous) gaining some serious power and influence (and dare I suggest it...wealth) that they wouldn't have got through any other method. Consider this referendum an election to parliament of a group of people with no fixed term, and no opportunity of voting them out. |
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