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Post by kenkong on Apr 12, 2022 17:38:32 GMT 8
I'm guessing he is better off with whatever tax breaks or other financial incentives Scomo has promised compared to Labor...? Either way everyone has a job that wants one so the Libs haven't done a terrible job. suppose if that is all that matters then we would never change government as anyone with a job has no need to to vote for the opposition and I don't think we have had unemployment at a rate where over 50 % of the eligible working folk were unemployed. Inflation real wage decay cost of living climate change record house prices but if you have a job just vote the current government back in, which would have us as a one party nation using that as the reasoning. It's not wrong it's just how people are. As I said people will nearly always put their hip pocket before any moral or social benefit. It's easy to complain about Scomo but while things are good financialy people will be scared to upset the apple cart.... Fear and greed.... Makes the world go round...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2022 17:48:11 GMT 8
suppose if that is all that matters then we would never change government as anyone with a job has no need to to vote for the opposition and I don't think we have had unemployment at a rate where over 50 % of the eligible working folk were unemployed. Inflation real wage decay cost of living climate change record house prices but if you have a job just vote the current government back in, which would have us as a one party nation using that as the reasoning. It's not wrong it's just how people are. As I said people will nearly always put their hip pocket before any moral or social benefit. It's easy to complain about Scomo but while things are good financialy people will be scared to upset the apple cart.... Fear and greed.... Makes the world go round... sure but the hip pocket is not great for most, anyhow suppose if we keep giving people tax cuts we can also cut services, do these employed people like subsidised education, private is very well subsidised, do they like medicare? why not cut taxes and let people provide their own defence service too
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Post by kenkong on Apr 12, 2022 17:58:14 GMT 8
As I said people will nearly always put their hip pocket before any moral or social benefit. It's easy to complain about Scomo but while things are good financialy people will be scared to upset the apple cart.... Fear and greed.... Makes the world go round... sure but the hip pocket is not great for most, anyhow suppose if we keep giving people tax cuts we can also cut services, do these employed people like subsidised education, private is very well subsidised, do they like medicare? why not cut taxes and let people provide their own defence service too The Libs are beating Labor at their own game. Spending like there is no tomorrow and buying votes...kick the can down the road and let the next guy worry about it. As for most peoples hip pockets not doing great, well we will have to agree to disagree on that one...People seem to be spending like crazy, especially on houses.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2022 18:11:12 GMT 8
sure but the hip pocket is not great for most, anyhow suppose if we keep giving people tax cuts we can also cut services, do these employed people like subsidised education, private is very well subsidised, do they like medicare? why not cut taxes and let people provide their own defence service too The Libs are beating Labor at their own game. Spending like there is no tomorrow and buying votes...kick the can down the road and let the next guy worry about it. As for most peoples hip pockets not doing great, well we will have to agree to disagree on that one...People seem to be spending like crazy, especially on houses. well I think we may agree on that as house buyers are kicking cans down the road. I have no idea who will win, doubt there will be much difference regardless who is in the lodge. Inflation rising from supply issues from pandemic, Ukraine war also having an impact. Restoring the tax to GDP ratio to a level that meets our expectation for services so maybe 25 26 % would be good or increase GST. Of course all those ageing aussies who love alan jones and hate government spending can consume less health care and just die earlier, after all it is what they or voting for,
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Post by IronJimbo on Apr 12, 2022 18:40:32 GMT 8
I hate Scomo but financially I'm better off with him, I don't know what to do'. Better off with him than? He doesn't know as he has nothing to compare him with Albo has not been PM so he can't compare with that, so what is his point, I'm financially of so I will stick with that. I'm guessing he is better off with whatever tax breaks or other financial incentives Scomo has promised compared to Labor...? Well Albo has already promised quite a bit of additional spending, so unless he's happy to blow out the debt even further he'll have to increase taxes
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 9:22:47 GMT 8
Australia Government Debt | Debt Billion |
| | 2004 | 59 |
|
| 2005 | 60 |
| | 2006 | 59 |
| | 2007 | 58 |
| | 2008 | 60 |
| | 2009 | 101 |
| | 2010 | 147 |
| | 2011 | 191 |
| | 2012 | 233 |
| | 2013 | 257 |
| | 2014 | 319 |
| | 2015 | 368 |
| | 2016 | 420 |
| | 2017 | 500 |
| | 2018 | 531 |
| | 2019 | 541 |
| | 2020 | 684 |
| |
Are both sides increasing spending? Or is it a prioritisation of spending, Chalmers says there are no additional taxes. Given the debt levels in the chart and the desire to cut taxes, are we not already borrowing heaps of money rather than increase or reform taxation. Allowing 19/20 for covid debt has been on a crazy increase since 2009, but much more in recent years. Is either party prepared to talk about this honestly?
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Post by prince on Apr 13, 2022 9:34:08 GMT 8
Australia Government Debt | Debt Billion |
| | 2004 | 59 |
|
| 2005 | 60 |
| | 2006 | 59 |
| | 2007 | 58 |
| | 2008 | 60 |
| | 2009 | 101 |
| | 2010 | 147 |
| | 2011 | 191 |
| | 2012 | 233 |
| | 2013 | 257 |
| | 2014 | 319 |
| | 2015 | 368 |
| | 2016 | 420 |
| | 2017 | 500 |
| | 2018 | 531 |
| | 2019 | 541 |
| | 2020 | 684 |
| |
Are both sides increasing spending? Or is it a prioritisation of spending, Chalmers says there are no additional taxes. Given the debt levels in the chart and the desire to cut taxes, are we not already borrowing heaps of money rather than increase or reform taxation. Allowing 19/20 for covid debt has been on a crazy increase since 2009, but much more in recent years. Is either party prepared to talk about this honestly? Actually Chalmers said there isn't going to be an 'Increase in Taxes' Which i suspect may mean no increase in current taxes but i don't think discounts any New Taxes and Albonese just avoided the question if there were going to be any 'New' taxes. I do think they have to introduce a tax of some description if they are to meet their proposed climate change targets. I might be wrong, but hopefully we will see in the coming weeks.
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Post by Peter on Apr 13, 2022 9:34:22 GMT 8
I hate Scomo but financially I'm better off with him, I don't know what to do'. Better off with him than? He doesn't know as he has nothing to compare him with Albo has not been PM so he can't compare with that, so what is his point, I'm financially of so I will stick with that. I'm guessing he is better off with whatever tax breaks or other financial incentives Scomo has promised compared to Labor...? Either way everyone has a job that wants one so the Libs haven't done a terrible job. Agree. Libs have actually been fairly good. It's just everyone hates scomo.
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Post by DropBear on Apr 13, 2022 9:34:40 GMT 8
Are both sides increasing spending? Or is it a prioritisation of spending, Chalmers says there are no additional taxes. Given the debt levels in the chart and the desire to cut taxes, are we not already borrowing heaps of money rather than increase or reform taxation. Allowing 19/20 for covid debt has been on a crazy increase since 2009, but much more in recent years. Is either party prepared to talk about this honestly? Either got to raise taxes or cut costs. Neither is a popular topic in an election campaign.
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Post by prince on Apr 13, 2022 9:37:37 GMT 8
I'm guessing he is better off with whatever tax breaks or other financial incentives Scomo has promised compared to Labor...? Either way everyone has a job that wants one so the Libs haven't done a terrible job. Agree. Libs have actually been fairly good. It's just everyone hates scomo. and yet, he speaks highly of you Peter.
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Post by IronJimbo on Apr 13, 2022 10:43:18 GMT 8
I'm guessing he is better off with whatever tax breaks or other financial incentives Scomo has promised compared to Labor...? Either way everyone has a job that wants one so the Libs haven't done a terrible job. Agree. Libs have actually been fairly good. It's just everyone hates scomo. Which led to an interesting analogy earlier in the week. When you go to see a dentist, are you more concerned about whether he's a good bloke or whether he's good at his job? I don't particularly care about the personalities. Pollies are there to provide services and then leave me the hell alone
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Post by IronJimbo on Apr 13, 2022 10:49:42 GMT 8
Australia Government Debt | Debt Billion |
| | 2004 | 59 |
|
| 2005 | 60 |
| | 2006 | 59 |
| | 2007 | 58 |
| | 2008 | 60 |
| | 2009 | 101 |
| | 2010 | 147 |
| | 2011 | 191 |
| | 2012 | 233 |
| | 2013 | 257 |
| | 2014 | 319 |
| | 2015 | 368 |
| | 2016 | 420 |
| | 2017 | 500 |
| | 2018 | 531 |
| | 2019 | 541 |
| | 2020 | 684 |
| |
Are both sides increasing spending? Or is it a prioritisation of spending, Chalmers says there are no additional taxes. Given the debt levels in the chart and the desire to cut taxes, are we not already borrowing heaps of money rather than increase or reform taxation. Allowing 19/20 for covid debt has been on a crazy increase since 2009, but much more in recent years. Is either party prepared to talk about this honestly? Given there was eventually no net debt under Costello toward the end of his tenure you're obviously referring to the amount of bonds on issue In any case, those "four years of surpluses" that Swan gave us really blew things up, didn't they?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 10:59:01 GMT 8
When did Wayne swan leave?
No government since Howard Costello has taken it anyway except up
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 11:00:30 GMT 8
Are both sides increasing spending? Or is it a prioritisation of spending, Chalmers says there are no additional taxes. Given the debt levels in the chart and the desire to cut taxes, are we not already borrowing heaps of money rather than increase or reform taxation. Allowing 19/20 for covid debt has been on a crazy increase since 2009, but much more in recent years. Is either party prepared to talk about this honestly? Either got to raise taxes or cut costs. Neither is a popular topic in an election campaign. people want everything, we ask our leaders to promise us magic puddings so they do.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 11:28:22 GMT 8
Australia Government Debt | Debt Billion |
| | 2004 | 59 |
|
| 2005 | 60 |
| | 2006 | 59 |
| | 2007 | 58 |
| | 2008 | 60 |
| | 2009 | 101 |
| | 2010 | 147 |
| | 2011 | 191 |
| | 2012 | 233 |
| | 2013 | 257 |
| | 2014 | 319 |
| | 2015 | 368 |
| | 2016 | 420 |
| | 2017 | 500 |
| | 2018 | 531 |
| | 2019 | 541 |
| | 2020 | 684 |
| |
Are both sides increasing spending? Or is it a prioritisation of spending, Chalmers says there are no additional taxes. Given the debt levels in the chart and the desire to cut taxes, are we not already borrowing heaps of money rather than increase or reform taxation. Allowing 19/20 for covid debt has been on a crazy increase since 2009, but much more in recent years. Is either party prepared to talk about this honestly? Given there was eventually no net debt under Costello toward the end of his tenure you're obviously referring to the amount of bonds on issue In any case, those "four years of surpluses" that Swan gave us really blew things up, didn't they? Suppose you can always read anything and have it suit your already confirmed bias. My research on the effects of political parties in Australia on the economy found that, historically, economic growth and other important economic outcomes have had little to do with which party is in power. – Mark Crosby. We can point at data and extrapolate with no other data to support it that the 2016 figure was due to an action in 2008 and blame that person, it doesn't fix anything, but people can feel good that they can blame some one else. Labour had a GFC and Coaltion had Covid which they both took decisive action on. The rest not so sure, maybe it's as Crosby says economic factors like a resource boom. Triathletes are really good at making excuses and blaming others, maybe they should go into politics
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Post by IronJimbo on Apr 13, 2022 11:37:49 GMT 8
When did Wayne swan leave? Not soon enough Albo would be wise to keep Penny Wong away from the finance portfolio though, given that the budget blew out by over $100 billion under her watch
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Post by IronJimbo on Apr 13, 2022 11:50:28 GMT 8
Labour had a GFC and Coaltion had Covid which they both took decisive action on. The rest not so sure, maybe it's as Crosby says economic factors like a resource boom. Comparing the respective responses to the GFC and Covid in terms of how much money was thrown about is overly simplistic Labor's GFC spending was a purely Keynesian response to a larger than normal economic downturn, most of which was wasted on useless and unproductive sh!t. They then made matters worse by loading up the budget knowing they were likely to lose office with spending which ramped up past the forward estimates on things like the NDIS Covid measures like jobkeeper were compensation for being denied the ability to work.
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Post by Peter on Apr 13, 2022 12:07:25 GMT 8
Agree. Libs have actually been fairly good. It's just everyone hates scomo. Which led to an interesting analogy earlier in the week. When you go to see a dentist, are you more concerned about whether he's a good bloke or whether he's good at his job? I don't particularly care about the personalities. Pollies are there to provide services and then leave me the hell alone I don't think scomo is doing a good job. But the people around him are. Would you go to a dentist if he was a former pedifile? Even if he was the best dentist in the country? I wouldnt.
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Post by Peter on Apr 13, 2022 12:09:13 GMT 8
Triathletes are really good at making excuses and blaming others, maybe they should go into politics Tony Abbott did. he was sh!t
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 12:17:41 GMT 8
Triathletes are really good at making excuses and blaming others, maybe they should go into politics Tony Abbott did. he was sh!t Didn't mind Tony Abbott, I think he was almost as slow as you at Ironman
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Post by IronJimbo on Apr 13, 2022 12:25:44 GMT 8
Which led to an interesting analogy earlier in the week. When you go to see a dentist, are you more concerned about whether he's a good bloke or whether he's good at his job? I don't particularly care about the personalities. Pollies are there to provide services and then leave me the hell alone I don't think scomo is doing a good job. But the people around him are. Would you go to a dentist if he was a former pedifile? Even if he was the best dentist in the country? I wouldnt. I would think it's pretty unlikely that a former paedophile would be able to get a license to practice dentistry
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Post by roxii on Apr 13, 2022 12:26:35 GMT 8
Pretty sure most of us could out swim Scomo
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 12:28:29 GMT 8
Labour had a GFC and Coaltion had Covid which they both took decisive action on. The rest not so sure, maybe it's as Crosby says economic factors like a resource boom. Comparing the respective responses to the GFC and Covid in terms of how much money was thrown about is overly simplistic Labor's GFC spending was a purely Keynesian response to a larger than normal economic downturn, most of which was wasted on useless and unproductive sh!t. They then made matters worse by loading up the budget knowing they were likely to lose office with spending which ramped up past the forward estimates on things like the NDIS Covid measures like jobkeeper were compensation for being denied the ability to work. www.crikey.com.au/2011/09/21/ask-the-economists-is-wayne-swan-the-worlds-best-treasurer/People with differing viewpoints, some agree with your assessment, some don't. Abbott turned by significant revenue raising measures which would have helped square the ledger. Alternatively they could have turned back the NDIS, which is what Aussies say they want, they want little government, very little tax and users to pay, so go insure yourself and get rid of the NDIS. Anyhow I don't think it's an either or, and that China probably helped us more than anything with massive spending boom. One of your COMSEC mates seems to approve of Swan's actions, others don't. I'll accept your expertise over mine as you actually have some expertise in this field, noting that Peter and yourself could do the same about matters like the Ukraine and security.
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Post by prince on Apr 13, 2022 16:36:44 GMT 8
wow, Albo has criticised Scomo for the past few years about the Job seeker rate and is not increasing it himself if he gets in. This will hurt his credibility I think.
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Post by Peter on Apr 13, 2022 17:01:51 GMT 8
wow, Albo has criticised Scomo for the past few years about the Job seeker rate and is not increasing it himself if he gets in. This will hurt his credibility I think. Fake news
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 17:04:46 GMT 8
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Post by prince on Apr 13, 2022 17:07:17 GMT 8
wow, Albo has criticised Scomo for the past few years about the Job seeker rate and is not increasing it himself if he gets in. This will hurt his credibility I think. Fake news no, he said it today and Penny Wong just confirmed it on the project. Apparently they can't afford it. Welfare is their bread and butter. This is a real tactical error
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 17:19:10 GMT 8
no, he said it today and Penny Wong just confirmed it on the project. Apparently they can't afford it. Welfare is their bread and butter. This is a real tactical error rock and a hard place, the tax cuts have been legislated and they don't want to be in the business of tearing apart the legislation of the previous government, unlike some in recent memory. In the face of large debt accrued over the last ten years their position is it is unaffordable. See above Ken Kong U thing said its all moot as everyone who wants a job has one, so if anyone is unhappy with job seeker all they have to do is work, as anyone who wants one can get one instantly.
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Post by Peter on Apr 13, 2022 17:54:04 GMT 8
no, he said it today and Penny Wong just confirmed it on the project. Apparently they can't afford it. Welfare is their bread and butter. This is a real tactical error There is hardly anyone on welfare. right move. Its not 1984 anymore.
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Post by prince on Apr 13, 2022 18:01:08 GMT 8
no, he said it today and Penny Wong just confirmed it on the project. Apparently they can't afford it. Welfare is their bread and butter. This is a real tactical error rock and a hard place, the tax cuts have been legislated and they don't want to be in the business of tearing apart the legislation of the previous government, unlike some in recent memory. In the face of large debt accrued over the last ten years their position is it is unaffordable. See above Ken Kong U thing said its all moot as everyone who wants a job has one, so if anyone is unhappy with job seeker all they have to do is work, as anyone who wants one can get one instantly. But you can't criticise the government for the past 3 years for not increasing job keeper then do nothing about it yourself. I mean wtf? it doesn't matter if its 'moot' or they 'cant afford it'.
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