Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 18:12:22 GMT 8
rock and a hard place, the tax cuts have been legislated and they don't want to be in the business of tearing apart the legislation of the previous government, unlike some in recent memory. In the face of large debt accrued over the last ten years their position is it is unaffordable. See above Ken Kong U thing said its all moot as everyone who wants a job has one, so if anyone is unhappy with job seeker all they have to do is work, as anyone who wants one can get one instantly. But you can't criticise the government for the past 3 years for not increasing job keeper then do nothing about it yourself. I mean wtf? it doesn't matter if its 'moot' or they 'cant afford it'. you can if their inability to manage the economy means it can't be funded, oh did we just go back to 2009-2013
|
|
|
Post by IronJimbo on Apr 13, 2022 18:12:54 GMT 8
The Libs are in to $2.40 now
I might have missed the boat
|
|
|
Post by comfortablynumb on Apr 13, 2022 18:14:15 GMT 8
I want interest rates to go through the roof so the housing market crashes & we can afford a place on the south coast. But the timing must be perfect.
Then I want it to crash again so our kids can afford to buy their first home (Brisbane, possible, Sydney no fkn chance).
We've done surveys of businesses in regional areas about job skill issues. So many times they tell us teaching people to do the job is no problem. Getting them to stay instead of pissing off & sitting on the dole is their main problem. Anyone who has an ounce of commitment is gold to them.
Official unemployment rates are BS.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 18:15:04 GMT 8
no, he said it today and Penny Wong just confirmed it on the project. Apparently they can't afford it. Welfare is their bread and butter. This is a real tactical error There is hardly anyone on welfare. right move. Its not 1984 anymore. www.aihw.gov.au/reports-data/australias-welfareonly 5.4 million, but with good electoral boundary management it shouldn't affect anyone
|
|
|
Post by comfortablynumb on Apr 13, 2022 18:27:11 GMT 8
only 5.4 million, but with good electoral boundary management it shouldn't affect anyone Sounds about right. 21% of the population. I was on the dole for about 3 weeks in my early 20's. It was so sh!t I found a job ASAP washing cars at Hertz at the Canberra Airport.....with a 4yrs honors degree in ag science.. That's the extent of my welfare journey. Since then, all I've done is pay for welfare. Our kids have not been on welfare (other than one on Youth Allowance @ Uni for 3yrs - which I was very pleased about to get some of my taxes back into the family).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 18:33:43 GMT 8
only 5.4 million, but with good electoral boundary management it shouldn't affect anyone Sounds about right. 21% of the population. I was on the dole for about 3 weeks in my early 20's. It was so sh!t I found a job ASAP washing cars at Hertz at the Canberra Airport.....with a 4yrs honors degree in ag science.. That's the extent of my welfare journey. Since then, all I've done is pay for welfare. Our kids have not been on welfare (other than one on Youth Allowance @ Uni for 3yrs - which I was very pleased about to get some of my taxes back into the family). so what is it: There is hardly anyone on welfare. Anyone can get a job so there are no problems Are the 5.4 million just lazy thus it makes no difference who is in government 2.6 million are on the aged pension, dole for old people who couldn't be bothered to save for their retirement, got to cut expenditure so we can give those tax cuts, so we should look hard at this. But we are at 8 million on tax payer funds. 750,000 or so on Disability support so close to 9 million on welfare. But hardly anyone and as anyone can get a job maybe governments and oppositions can convince those people to get jobs which after all anyone can get.
|
|
|
Post by comfortablynumb on Apr 13, 2022 18:39:35 GMT 8
Sounds about right. 21% of the population. I was on the dole for about 3 weeks in my early 20's. It was so sh!t I found a job ASAP washing cars at Hertz at the Canberra Airport.....with a 4yrs honors degree in ag science.. That's the extent of my welfare journey. Since then, all I've done is pay for welfare. Our kids have not been on welfare (other than one on Youth Allowance @ Uni for 3yrs - which I was very pleased about to get some of my taxes back into the family). so what is it: There is hardly anyone on welfare. Anyone can get a job so there are no problems Are the 5.4 million just lazy thus it makes no difference who is in government 2.6 million are on the aged pension, dole for old people who couldn't be bothered to save for their retirement, got to cut expenditure so we can give those tax cuts, so we should look hard at this. But we are at 8 million on tax payer funds. 750,000 or so on Disability support so close to 9 million on welfare. But hardly anyone and as anyone can get a job maybe governments and oppositions can convince those people to get jobs which after all anyone can get. What it is, is that relying on the govt to get you through life has become the norm.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 18:47:44 GMT 8
so what is it: There is hardly anyone on welfare. Anyone can get a job so there are no problems Are the 5.4 million just lazy thus it makes no difference who is in government 2.6 million are on the aged pension, dole for old people who couldn't be bothered to save for their retirement, got to cut expenditure so we can give those tax cuts, so we should look hard at this. But we are at 8 million on tax payer funds. 750,000 or so on Disability support so close to 9 million on welfare. But hardly anyone and as anyone can get a job maybe governments and oppositions can convince those people to get jobs which after all anyone can get. What it is, is that relying on the govt to get you through life has become the norm. I agree the facts support that, so what should we do. I have saved close to 40 % of my income which will deliver a solid self funded pension from age 55. people moan about that and say that's so unfair, did they forgo 40 % of their total package
|
|
|
Post by comfortablynumb on Apr 14, 2022 5:44:37 GMT 8
What it is, is that relying on the govt to get you through life has become the norm. I agree the facts support that, so what should we do. I have saved close to 40 % of my income which will deliver a solid self funded pension from age 55. people moan about that and say that's so unfair, did they forgo 40 % of their total package We've done similar. No pensions for us. I don't know what we can do about it. It's gone so far for so long, we have a large demographic who now expect that is how things should operate. Perhaps we could do what some Scandinavian countries do. Much higher tax rates on workers, but a very secure retirement system? But that would not be popular, esp. among young people with our ridiculous house prices. Or we get harder on the dole arrangements? But then the lefties would go ballistic and Redgum would make a fortune with new song material. I recall interviewing a young woman from Mungindi whose family run a retail business there. She said every week people come in to get her to sign their dole forms to say they tried to get a job there. She started saying "no, but we need staff so I'll give you a job". They all said "no, I don't want a job, I just need the dole" (and to breed to get higher child support). Numerous other businesses tell similar stories. The classic was an aerial fertilizing business who put on a young bloke as an assistant. His first job included sweeping out the sheds. After a week he left to go back on welfare because they had not let him fly the planes yet! I guess on balance, I find it hard to support Labor because their rhetoric always panders to this growing soft-cockery. In some instances, I agree (e.g. aged care, health) but tagging along behind is other welfare that is ridiculous and besides, they can virtue signal with the best of them, but can they deliver? And then you have the coalition who would love to dismantle some of this welfare rorting, but don't want to be seen as Thatcherites and lose votes. We might just have to live with the fact that in Australia, half the population are going to be supporting the other half (half of whom don't deserve it).
|
|
|
Post by DropBear on Apr 14, 2022 6:06:45 GMT 8
But you can't criticise the government for the past 3 years for not increasing job keeper then do nothing about it yourself. I mean wtf? it doesn't matter if its 'moot' or they 'cant afford it'. Welcome to Australian politics. The place where of Political Point Scoring is more important than actually doing anything. You can't seriously believe that a Liberal opposition won't spend the next 3 years criticising a Labor government for not raising the Job Keeper allowance.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2022 6:33:14 GMT 8
I agree the facts support that, so what should we do. I have saved close to 40 % of my income which will deliver a solid self funded pension from age 55. people moan about that and say that's so unfair, did they forgo 40 % of their total package We've done similar. No pensions for us. I don't know what we can do about it. It's gone so far for so long, we have a large demographic who now expect that is how things should operate. Perhaps we could do what some Scandinavian countries do. Much higher tax rates on workers, but a very secure retirement system? But that would not be popular, esp. among young people with our ridiculous house prices. Or we get harder on the dole arrangements? But then the lefties would go ballistic and Redgum would make a fortune with new song material. I recall interviewing a young woman from Mungindi whose family run a retail business there. She said every week people come in to get her to sign their dole forms to say they tried to get a job there. She started saying "no, but we need staff so I'll give you a job". They all said "no, I don't want a job, I just need the dole" (and to breed to get higher child support). Numerous other businesses tell similar stories. The classic was an aerial fertilizing business who put on a young bloke as an assistant. His first job included sweeping out the sheds. After a week he left to go back on welfare because they had not let him fly the planes yet! I guess on balance, I find it hard to support Labor because their rhetoric always panders to this growing soft-cockery. In some instances, I agree (e.g. aged care, health) but tagging along behind is other welfare that is ridiculous and besides, they can virtue signal with the best of them, but can they deliver? And then you have the coalition who would love to dismantle some of this welfare rorting, but don't want to be seen as Thatcherites and lose votes. We might just have to live with the fact that in Australia, half the population are going to be supporting the other half (half of whom don't deserve it). I hear you. A challenge has been the casualization of labour, without a commensurate, meaningful rise in wages for that uncertainty. Now I'm not employers owe people a full time job and entitlements that come with that. But some of those people are turning down that 4 hour a day job as they will be no better off in their mind. I don't get it as you must be better off working than not. We have to change that mentality (accept some folk will never want to work hard). We should look at policies which reduce incentive to take the job, the odd formula where if a person took some casual work they end up worse off overall than if they did no work and just took the dole. We should look at anything we can do with small to medium business to employ people and keep them employed, a dollar to a business to keep some one in a job is better than a dollar to the dole. Now take a look at Services Oz, the place which basically manages payroll for people without jobs, though it is half the country. It has 30,000 public servants and the most SES officers to manage a bunch of entitlements. Abolish Human Services, keep a small core of policy people to make it a lot less complicated, move payroll to a payroll company.
|
|
|
Post by comfortablynumb on Apr 14, 2022 7:00:59 GMT 8
I hear you. A challenge has been the casualization of labour, without a commensurate, meaningful rise in wages for that uncertainty. Now I'm not employers owe people a full time job and entitlements that come with that. But some of those people are turning down that 4 hour a day job as they will be no better off in their mind. I don't get it as you must be better off working than not. We have to change that mentality (accept some folk will never want to work hard). We should look at policies which reduce incentive to take the job, the odd formula where if a person took some casual work they end up worse off overall than if they did no work and just took the dole. We should look at anything we can do with small to medium business to employ people and keep them employed, a dollar to a business to keep some one in a job is better than a dollar to the dole. Now take a look at Services Oz, the place which basically manages payroll for people without jobs, though it is half the country. It has 30,000 public servants and the most SES officers to manage a bunch of entitlements. Abolish Human Services, keep a small core of policy people to make it a lot less complicated, move payroll to a payroll company. Agree 100%. Give money to the businesses to employ someone rather than to the welfare rorter. Many sections of the public service are essentially a form of welfare too, a sheltered workshop for people who could not survive elsewhere. At least they pay tax I suppose. We ran our own business for 16yrs and it was hard and not very financially rewarding in hindsight (we did not charge enough). I then got a job with a not-for-profit and wondered 'how long has this gig been going on for - salary, super, paid leave, long-service leave, a car, fark me how good is this'. Allowed us to salary sacrifice to the max into super = no pension.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2022 7:10:03 GMT 8
I hear you. A challenge has been the casualization of labour, without a commensurate, meaningful rise in wages for that uncertainty. Now I'm not employers owe people a full time job and entitlements that come with that. But some of those people are turning down that 4 hour a day job as they will be no better off in their mind. I don't get it as you must be better off working than not. We have to change that mentality (accept some folk will never want to work hard). We should look at policies which reduce incentive to take the job, the odd formula where if a person took some casual work they end up worse off overall than if they did no work and just took the dole. We should look at anything we can do with small to medium business to employ people and keep them employed, a dollar to a business to keep some one in a job is better than a dollar to the dole. Now take a look at Services Oz, the place which basically manages payroll for people without jobs, though it is half the country. It has 30,000 public servants and the most SES officers to manage a bunch of entitlements. Abolish Human Services, keep a small core of policy people to make it a lot less complicated, move payroll to a payroll company. Agree 100%. Give money to the businesses to employ someone rather than to the welfare rorter. Many sections of the public service are essentially a form of welfare too, a sheltered workshop for people who could not survive elsewhere. At least they pay tax I suppose. We ran our own business for 16yrs and it was hard and not very financially rewarding in hindsight (we did not charge enough). I then got a job with a not-for-profit and wondered 'how long has this gig been going on for - salary, super, paid leave, long-service leave, a car, fark me how good is this'. Allowed us to salary sacrifice to the max into super = no pension. We could also apply the not for profit salary sacrifice provisions for all. If we want people to self fund make it attractive. But less than half the population work, Big corps don't pay tax so money has to come from some where unless of course we defund things. A lot of folk who vote LNP do so out of aspiration, need and use those services they rail against
|
|
|
Post by DropBear on Apr 14, 2022 7:28:08 GMT 8
I have saved close to 40 % of my income which will deliver a solid self funded pension from age 55. people moan about that and say that's so unfair, did they forgo 40 % of their total package Yes I love being called "rich" and "selfish" because I planned for a retirement future without a government pension. We've spent our lives saving hard and investing wisely and we'll have a comfortable retirement whenever we decide to do so. The plan is retire at 60 but I reckon we'll be able to retire before that should we choose to.
|
|
|
Post by kenkong on Apr 14, 2022 8:17:13 GMT 8
But you can't criticise the government for the past 3 years for not increasing job keeper then do nothing about it yourself. I mean wtf? it doesn't matter if its 'moot' or they 'cant afford it'. Welcome to Australian politics. The place where of Political Point Scoring is more important than actually doing anything. You can't seriously believe that a Liberal opposition won't spend the next 3 years criticising a Labor government for not raising the Job Keeper allowance. All politics for that matter. I remember talking to a MP one time and saying 'if the opposition have a good idea why don't you just agree instead of just arguing against every single thing they do? It make you look childish' His response was that it was their duty to argue and oppose all forms of legislation put up by the opposition in order to ensure it had been properly checked, critiqued and validated. Maybe... But after that if it still passes the test they should go 'yep great idea let's get behind this' They are all a bunch of self serving school kids..
|
|
|
Post by comfortablynumb on Apr 14, 2022 8:23:59 GMT 8
And then you have the problem of being in Barnaby's electorate. He seems quite unhinged to me. But what is the alternative? The Labor candidates seem dumber & would push the welfare wagon even harder. Independents - they are usually even crazier. I've had the misfortune of being in meetings with one who ran at state elections - just a total ranting crackhead it appears.
|
|
|
Post by prince on Apr 14, 2022 9:01:04 GMT 8
But you can't criticise the government for the past 3 years for not increasing job keeper then do nothing about it yourself. I mean wtf? it doesn't matter if its 'moot' or they 'cant afford it'. Welcome to Australian politics. The place where of Political Point Scoring is more important than actually doing anything. You can't seriously believe that a Liberal opposition won't spend the next 3 years criticising a Labor government for not raising the Job Keeper allowance. no, the liberal party stick to their bread and butter (support business growth) and rarely stray from it. Job keeper and welfare has always been labor bread and butter, hence why I think this is quite a big deal and why the media will hold Albo's feet to the fire on it, which is what they are currently doing at the press conferences, and why Albo did a runner yesterday. gee, I hope there will be a debate.
|
|
|
Post by IronJimbo on Apr 14, 2022 10:09:21 GMT 8
It seems that Albo is trying to run a similar campaign to Joe Biden's in 2020 - lay low, try not to say anything stupid and rely on coverage from a compliant media cabal to get him over the line
Two problems:
- Scott Morrison is not Donald Trump - Even the ABC aren't quite as obsequious as NBC, CNN, CBS, NYT, WaPo, etc
|
|
|
Post by Peter on Apr 14, 2022 13:47:08 GMT 8
It seems that Albo is trying to run a similar campaign to Joe Biden's in 2020 - lay low, try not to say anything stupid and rely on coverage from a compliant media cabal to get him over the line Two problems: - Scott Morrison is not Donald Trump - Even the ABC aren't quite as obsequious as NBC, CNN, CBS, NYT, WaPo, etc Its actually Worked well up until this week doing exactly your quote. but now is his hardest 6 weeks of his life. is he up to it? We will know in 6 weeks time I guess. But its not Looking good so far
|
|
|
Post by Peter on Apr 14, 2022 13:47:40 GMT 8
The Libs are in to $2.40 now I might have missed the boat I think so. Amazing really.
|
|
|
Post by IronJimbo on Apr 14, 2022 14:47:26 GMT 8
It seems that Albo is trying to run a similar campaign to Joe Biden's in 2020 - lay low, try not to say anything stupid and rely on coverage from a compliant media cabal to get him over the line Two problems: - Scott Morrison is not Donald Trump - Even the ABC aren't quite as obsequious as NBC, CNN, CBS, NYT, WaPo, etc Its actually Worked well up until this week doing exactly your quote. but now is his hardest 6 weeks of his life. is he up to it? We will know in 6 weeks time I guess. But its not Looking good so far Elections are usually a referendum on one of the candidates, and that candidates usually loses Morrison successfully made 2019 a referendum on Bill Shorten. Newspoll over the past three years has been a referendum on Morrison, but now people are having to seriously consider the prospect of Albo in the Lodge. The Libs would be pretty happy with how week 1 has gone so far In the US, the popular view was that the 2016 election was a referendum on Donald Trump, but the results showed it was a referendum on Hillary. In 2020 Biden and the media were able to blame covid on Trump and steal home base...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2022 16:44:21 GMT 8
Think it is done and dusted, landslide for incumbents
|
|
|
Post by Slunnie on Apr 16, 2022 9:40:54 GMT 8
Think it is done and dusted, landslide for incumbents Thats what all of the paid up Liberals would want people to think, even this far out from the election. It's laughable and a total load of rubbish.
|
|
|
Post by prince on Apr 16, 2022 9:45:50 GMT 8
Think it is done and dusted, landslide for incumbents Thats what all of the paid up Liberals would want people to think, even this far out from the election. It's laughable and a total load of rubbish. Agree. Scomo and team blue are still the underdogs. Last week, they would have secured many of the undecided however, as they realised Albo isn’t up to the task. The debate is on Wednesday and I would expect Scomo to win this which will secure more undecided.
|
|
|
Post by Peter on Apr 16, 2022 9:48:14 GMT 8
Thats what all of the paid up Liberals would want people to think, even this far out from the election. It's laughable and a total load of rubbish. Agree. Scomo and team blue are still the underdogs. Last week, they would have secured many of the undecided however, as they realised Albo isn’t up to the task. The debate is on Wednesday and I would expect Scomo to win this which will secure more undecided. Yeah albo will be a sh!t in a debate.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2022 9:55:05 GMT 8
Thats what all of the paid up Liberals would want people to think, even this far out from the election. It's laughable and a total load of rubbish. Agree. Scomo and team blue are still the underdogs. Last week, they would have secured many of the undecided however, as they realised Albo isn’t up to the task. The debate is on Wednesday and I would expect Scomo to win this which will secure more undecided. How can they be the under dog when Albo was shown repeatedly to be a dithering confused old man
|
|
|
Post by DropBear on Apr 16, 2022 13:08:07 GMT 8
How can they be the under dog when Albo was shown repeatedly to be a dithering confused old man Compared to the man who's shown over the past 3 years that his ability to make the correct decision at the correct time is decidedly questionable?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2022 13:45:12 GMT 8
How can they be the under dog when Albo was shown repeatedly to be a dithering confused old man Compared to the man who's shown over the past 3 years that his ability to make the correct decision at the correct time is decidedly questionable? Whether people like the PM or not, in the last three years, Covid big, correct decision, Economic stimulus in Covid big correct decision, taking the correct stand regards Ukraine and China, big correct decision. The alternate showed in week one why there has been such a low profile, people will not entrust the nation in this global situation to Albo.
|
|
|
Post by IronJimbo on Apr 16, 2022 15:30:58 GMT 8
How can they be the under dog when Albo was shown repeatedly to be a dithering confused old man Compared to the man who's shown over the past 3 years that his ability to make the correct decision at the correct time is decidedly questionable? Governing is a bit harder than opposing As the Americans are finding out
|
|
|
Post by comfortablynumb on Apr 16, 2022 15:41:47 GMT 8
Compared to the man who's shown over the past 3 years that his ability to make the correct decision at the correct time is decidedly questionable? Whether people like the PM or not, in the last three years, Covid big, correct decision, Economic stimulus in Covid big correct decision, taking the correct stand regards Ukraine and China, big correct decision. The alternate showed in week one why there has been such a low profile, people will not entrust the nation in this global situation to Albo. Yup, that's how I read it too. So many people hate the bloke (including my kids & relos) but I'm still struggling to see what he has done that is so badly wrong?
|
|