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Post by prince on Dec 1, 2022 5:15:40 GMT 8
I predict some pretty big backlash over this and ironman deserves everything they will get. It will be an 'experiment' and things will return to normal by 2024.
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Post by aplover on Dec 1, 2022 5:56:06 GMT 8
I predict some pretty big backlash over this and ironman deserves everything they will get. It will be an 'experiment' and things will return to normal by 2024. Agree im a massive IM lover but this is a complete cluster Fark
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Post by Katz on Dec 1, 2022 6:16:10 GMT 8
It will be a very sad day for me if I happen to jag a spot on Monday as I will refuse it. Kona was a special event in my mind. These recent changes mean it isn't anymore.
Not to mention that me jagging a spot at all would border on completely ridiculous, but that is a whole other conversation.
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zed
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Post by zed on Dec 1, 2022 7:06:16 GMT 8
sorry Zed, i can't see any benefits. I think the coverage, the excitement, the conditions, the iconic venue, all make it for me. I mean tell me how St George earlier in the year in comparison to Kona later in the year was better? Sure the accomodation was expensive, but that was the demand for packing so many in. IF its more about money, than there is no reason why they can't add another 1000 men to Nice. But doesn't that diminish the value to a world champs? no one even remembers the podium at St George, it was meaningless. Even Blu thinks so, hence why he was eager to win at Kona next year. Not saying I agree, but I can see why Ironman would look elsewhere. The 2 day format for them is hugely profitable, they are going to stick with that and that's not going to work in Kona. I think the local community was pretty done with the World Champs being in Kona even before the race switched to 2 days, people reporting a lot of anger and hostility from locals. Joe Skipper was almost run off the road. I think they'll have the women's there 2023, men 2024, then no more for Kona. Having the WC elsewhere will hurt the iconic status of the World Champs, it will be like the 70.3 World Champs where if it's miles away slots will roll down past 20. Anyone can go. My mate hasn't done a full in 4 years and she got an email offering her a spot at St George.... It's sh!t.. I know the decision was more or less taken out of Ironman's hands with the county of Hawaii "removing their support" for the race. Would this have been any different if the race had switched back to the 1 day format?
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zed
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Post by zed on Dec 1, 2022 7:08:56 GMT 8
It will be a very sad day for me if I happen to jag a spot on Monday as I will refuse it. Kona was a special event in my mind. These recent changes mean it isn't anymore. Not to mention that me jagging a spot at all would border on completely ridiculous, but that is a whole other conversation. How many spots in yiour AG?
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zed
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Post by zed on Dec 1, 2022 7:12:41 GMT 8
I wonder how roll down will go for the men now it's not in Kona for next year. Congratulations you're going to Nice...
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Post by aplover on Dec 1, 2022 7:39:08 GMT 8
Looks like they are making it up as they go along This is what’s happening to the slots at busso on the weekend
You are no doubt wondering exactly what this means for you as a registered athlete into GWM IRONMAN Western Australia taking place this weekend.
The male race at the 2023 VinFast IRONMAN World Championship is yet to have a confirmed date or location – we anticipate that this will be announced in January 2023, with a virtual roll down to follow the January announcement. There will still be 40 age group qualification slots for male athletes.
Given that your race is just days away, we can confirm that any male athlete who obtains a slot in the virtual roll down for Busso will be able to accept that slot to race in either:
the 2023 VinFast IRONMAN World Championship (date and location to be confirmed), for those who wish to race in 2023; or the 2024 VinFast IRONMAN World Championship to be held in Kailua-Kona, Hawai’i (date to be confirmed), for those who wish to race in Kailua-Kona, Hawai’i. We know this is a significant change so close to the event and appreciate your patience and understanding as our team finalised these details.
Safe travels if you are on your way to Busso, and best of luck with your race this weekend!
The IRONMAN Oceania Team
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 1, 2022 7:39:35 GMT 8
I wonder how roll down will go for the men now it's not in Kona for next year. Congratulations you're going to Nice... With only two other guys in my age group, Taupo would have been my best shot -- my only imaginable shot -- at Kona. Ever. Nice - if that's where it turns out to be - has history and I respect that. So I might take it if it rolls to me (being realistic -- one of the guys in my AG is fast, hours faster than me). Even so, I feel like Charlie Brown and the football.
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 1, 2022 7:43:45 GMT 8
Looks like they are making it up as they go along... -- snip -- or the 2024 VinFast IRONMAN World Championship to be held in Kailua-Kona, Hawai’i (date to be confirmed), for those who wish to race in Kailua-Kona, Hawai’i. Just got the email from IMNZ. Same deal, I'm happy now.
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Post by Katz on Dec 1, 2022 8:17:08 GMT 8
It will be a very sad day for me if I happen to jag a spot on Monday as I will refuse it. Kona was a special event in my mind. These recent changes mean it isn't anymore. Not to mention that me jagging a spot at all would border on completely ridiculous, but that is a whole other conversation. How many spots in your AG? I don't know and I don't even know where to look to find out. I only know there are 110 (or 115, or 105, I can't remember exactly) female slots all together. Not sure how they are allocated between the age groups. I'm in 45-49. Lots of chicks with disposable cash laying around now the bulk of the kids are out of the house. Not to mention lots of chicks way faster than me and I hope to have a good year this year!
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zed
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Post by zed on Dec 1, 2022 8:28:05 GMT 8
What's the weather looking like? I suppose I should look but can't be bothered!
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Post by Katz on Dec 1, 2022 9:24:03 GMT 8
Not looking again till Saturday probably, but it has been all over the place up until now, including forecast thunderstorms!
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Post by andrewearlwood on Dec 1, 2022 10:08:40 GMT 8
What a mess. IRONMAN are killing their brand. They are killing the heart and soul of the sport.
Most of the people who were ‘sold’ on a two day event - and hence an increased chance to participate - hadn’t even qualified for the 2023 race: of course IRONMAN corp could have gone back to the market and said ‘Island says no to a two day event’ and adjust selections accordingly. Now? Imagine if as a male age grouper you had qualified ‘for Kona’ only to be told: ‘surprise, your going to Nice [or wherever] instead’. Yeah, nah. They couldn’t fill the field at St George in may this year; why do they think that people would be happy to have Kona taken away from them next year?
Of course, only about 500 athletes are actually ‘in it’ with a chance to win something (a championship, money, podiums in their AG); the rest of the field - to varying degrees - are Triathlon tourists. Leaving aside the issue with the transition areas for a moment, as a single lap course Kona CAN probably accomodate 5000 athletes on the same day. As for transition areas, just have two areas. We saw this a little bit this year. Have the pros and half the field run to the start of Ali Drive without having to run around the pier for their T1 (the pros were actually racked there this year). The remainder of the field can remain racked on the pier (and have to run around it as per now). At the T2 dismount line, the bikes are just handed to volunteers anyway - who then re-rack them according to the bike numbers. Simples.
Make it harder to qualify for the ‘world championships’ component of the event (AG winners only for the smaller Ironman Qualifying races, top 3 for the regional championships), cut out all the corporate/special interest/purchased slots and instead introduce a lottery at each IM to fill out the field (no money is required to enter the lottery - thus avoiding the problems that killed the original lottery, just a finish at that event) and pick between 10 (small races) and 100 (regional championships) per event by secret ballot draw.
The one day Kona race should look like this:
~50 pro men (6.25am start) ~50 pro women (6.30am start) ~100 challenged athletes (6.31am start) ~800 qualified age groupers (men 7:15am start); women (7.20 start) - the remainder of the field (200 Legends plus how many lottery winners can fit onto the course) start at 7:30am in a rolling start wave.
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Post by andrewearlwood on Dec 1, 2022 10:33:42 GMT 8
“The 2 day format for them is hugely profitable …”
In Kona. It is profitable for Ironman Corp if the race is held in Kona.
Less than half the field give more than zero f*cks for the “World Championship” component of the event. Even less care about the fact that the course is boring, yet oppressively hot and humid. It’s KONA!!!
I’d say that Nice is a million times better as a race destination, but it ain’t KONA!!!
If Ironman want to make money out of another two day ‘world championship’ event, then why not do a deal with the ITU to permanently run the ITU long course WC in Nice in September over the traditional 4/120/30 distance? maybe get the PTO involved and a $2 million prize purse?
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Post by roxii on Dec 1, 2022 10:45:29 GMT 8
I reckon there is probably a class action being organised by American triathletes who will now have to leave the USA to do "their" "world championship".
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 1, 2022 11:38:50 GMT 8
I reckon there is probably a class action being organised by American triathletes who will now have to leave the USA to do "their" "world championship". No way. Most Americans don't know Hawaii is in the US.
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bosco
New Member
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Post by bosco on Dec 1, 2022 13:37:44 GMT 8
It will be a very sad day for me if I happen to jag a spot on Monday as I will refuse it. Kona was a special event in my mind. These recent changes mean it isn't anymore. Not to mention that me jagging a spot at all would border on completely ridiculous, but that is a whole other conversation. Don’t be too rash - I would take in a heartbeat. Kona is a magical spot in October for world championships - take this opportunity before it’s gone forever.
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Post by Peter on Dec 1, 2022 14:08:02 GMT 8
I reckon there is probably a class action being organised by American triathletes who will now have to leave the USA to do "their" "world championship". Nah. They can’t as the qualifying email has so much small print, if they wanted to move the world champs to Darwin, they can.
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Post by Peter on Dec 1, 2022 14:08:42 GMT 8
It will be a very sad day for me if I happen to jag a spot on Monday as I will refuse it. Kona was a special event in my mind. These recent changes mean it isn't anymore. Not to mention that me jagging a spot at all would border on completely ridiculous, but that is a whole other conversation. Don’t be too rash - I would take in a heartbeat. Kona is a magical spot in October for world championships - take this opportunity before it’s gone forever. This is hilarious. Katz was joking with her post.
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bosco
New Member
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Post by bosco on Dec 2, 2022 5:49:47 GMT 8
Great - for a moment I thought she was really going to decline a slot!
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Post by flanman on Dec 2, 2022 7:59:25 GMT 8
Husband and wife friends have flown over to Busso with the focus of both qualifying for the World Champs. He has qualified twice before, and she has missed out by only a couple of spots. That'll now cost just a tad more if they both make it. I expect that only one will take a spot or both take spots and roll one over.
It is a sh!t situation for some however, if it stays the same, in five years' time everyone will have moved on. I wouldn't be surprised if the World Champs move permanently to Europe and Kona just keeps the 70.3 race.
FM
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Post by Peter on Dec 2, 2022 8:31:20 GMT 8
The South of France is such a sh!t place to visit. So no one ever.
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Post by prince on Dec 2, 2022 9:07:17 GMT 8
from what i have heard, accommodation in Nice is even more expensive than Kona and many will struggle to stay close to the race area.
Hope it all falls flat and the PTO start their own world champs.
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Post by roxii on Dec 2, 2022 9:17:59 GMT 8
from what i have heard, accommodation in Nice is even more expensive than Kona and many will struggle to stay close to the race area. Hope it all falls flat and the PTO start their own world champs. Wonder if Macca is talking to his people in the Middle east about something similar. Now would be the ideal time to throw some big bucks at a race. Middle east can be as hot as you like if you choose the right month, if that's what folk are after.
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 2, 2022 10:08:45 GMT 8
I wouldn't be surprised if the World Champs move permanently to Europe and Kona just keeps the 70.3 race. FM IMH is IMH because it's IMH. Not because WTC calls it IMWC. Their Ironman distance races could offer slots to both Kona and the world champs, and they could make even more money. If winners had to pick one or the other in the roll down, which do you think would go first? My bet would be on Kona. Assuming WTC releases the numbers, it'll be interesting to see how many men opt for 2024 in Kona over 2023 in Nice or where ever it ends up.
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Post by Peter on Dec 2, 2022 10:54:53 GMT 8
from what i have heard, accommodation in Nice is even more expensive than Kona and many will struggle to stay close to the race area. Hope it all falls flat and the PTO start their own world champs. Not true. Nice isn’t more expensive than what kona was this year. That’s for sure LOL 😂. PTO won’t exist in 5 years time. same as the Prince in Bahrain. Dumped crazy money into triathlons. now he wants to win the Americas cup after he wins a ufc title. these right guys move on.
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Post by aplover on Dec 2, 2022 17:01:59 GMT 8
Max Neuman said at the busso pro presso today that he is shattered by the decision and has lost the drive to win this race due to he isn’t racing for a WC slot as he won’t take a a spot to nice as it’s not kona He really went into it and you could see how much it meant to him to race at hawaii
Pete Murry tried to shut him down a little as obviously IM pays Pete’s bills so he couldn’t go along with the conversation
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Post by andrewearlwood on Dec 2, 2022 17:27:57 GMT 8
Max Neuman said at the busso pro presso today that he is shattered by the decision and has lost the drive to win this race due to he isn’t racing for a WC slot as he won’t take a a spot to nice as it’s not kona He really went into it and you could see how much it meant to him to race at hawaii Pete Murry tried to shut him down a little as obviously IM pays Pete’s bills so he couldn’t go along with the conversation I reckon that Jan won’t race. Laidlaw may go because he is a young pro, but he has already stated that only Kona matters to him. Wurf will probably race the pro tour all year and try to jag a spot on one of the grand tour rosters. Skipper will like his chances, as will Brownlee. But: Most of the men will only race under sufferance, if they are any good at middle distance racing will likely skip the whole IM circuit in favour of PTO races. Ironman Corp are dead already. They just don’t know it yet.
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ifoz
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Post by ifoz on Dec 2, 2022 17:46:37 GMT 8
If you pardon the pun, in last week's mockery podcast, Joe Skipper said he was going to focus on the PTO races next year (chasing the coin).
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Post by andrewearlwood on Dec 2, 2022 18:22:36 GMT 8
If you pardon the pun, in last week's mockery podcast, Joe Skipper said he was going to focus on the PTO races next year (chasing the coin). Joe’s just not fast enough over those distances. He’d be racing for tenth (which ain’t bad coin, but his best bet at serious coin would be at an Ironman WC in Nice. I reckon he would have podiumed in St George in May this year and next year - no Norwegians (probably) and most of the quicker shorter and mid distance athletes probably not turning up, Detlev, he and Brownlee would probably start favourites.
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